In Defense of Your Future How to Choose Your Chicago Criminal Defense Lawyer

Episode 6 Transcript

Matt Skye:
Hi, everybody. Welcome to Defending the Windy City with David Druecke. As founding partner of DRD Law, David brings a razor focus to criminal defense, known for his fierce courtroom presence and expert knowledge of evidentiary procedure, passionately defending his clients' rights. David, thanks for joining.

Thanks for having me again, Matt. So for someone who needs a criminal defense attorney in Chicago, what experience should they be looking for?

David Drewecke:
Well, first and foremost, the advice that I give to anyone, including my own family, is find an attorney who specializes in the problem that you have. So naturally, we're talking about criminal defense. That's what I do. If you are charged or you have a loved one who's charged with a criminal case, find a criminal attorney. You know, go to their website, see what they talk about. Are they trying to be a general practitioner and be all things to all people? Are they drafting wills on one day, they'll handle your slip and fall the next day, criminal law on another day? Yes, they legally can do that. That's not unethical. There's nothing, there's no rule against it. But if you want to get the best results, you find an expert in your problem. Not dissimilar from finding an expert medical provider. If you have a problem with your foot, go to a podiatrist. If you have problems with your eye, go to an ophthalmologist. There are experts who specialize in your problem, and that's what I do as criminal law. So start by finding somebody who specializes in your problem.

Matt Skye:
That's a great analogy. How does that specialization impact outcomes?

David Drewecke:
Huge. And it comes in a few different ways. First and foremost is just being up to date on the law and understanding what are the possible defenses to this type of case, because every case is a little nuanced. Every case is fact specific that you're then trying to force into a system, into an indictment or a charge, and whether the state can meet their burden or not.

The other component to just being a specialist and focusing on what it is that you do is relationship building. I am in with state's attorneys each and every day. I am in front of the judges that you're likely to see or your loved one's likely to see every day. I have a relationship with them. I have a rapport with them. I know what they're looking for when it comes to negotiation or what it is they want to see in order to consider a reduced charge or a specific type of sentence. When it comes to what type of defenses are likely to be successful, well, I can point to years and hundreds of trials of experience and say, these work, these don't. So this is what you need to start to prepare yourself for. Should we be negotiating or should we be in a trial posture? And that's all experience. That's all focused on doing this kind of law in this specific jurisdiction with these states' attorneys and judges literally every day, all day. That's all I do.

Matt Skye:
I don't think people always think about that, how important those personal relationships are. Maybe can you elaborate on that a little more, as well as just how the size and resources of a law firm help outcomes?

David Drewecke:
Again, it's huge. Relationships are one of the single biggest things in law in general, but in criminal law specifically, because we're not talking about money. We're talking about reaching a resolution that a victim might be satisfied with from the state side, because they have... Yes, they have supervisors and bosses. They don't have total autonomy to offer anything that they want. And they also oftentimes will have a victim or a complaining witness that they need to go along with an offer. So it's relationships on that end.

But then it's also the relationship you have with the state's attorney. Do they trust you? What is your reputation in the community? Are you somebody that tells it straight and how it is? And you're candid about cases that some are stronger than others. That if I come in and say, listen, this is not a strong case for you, you should consider a lesser charge. It quite literally happened today. I have a client who's charged with murder. It is not a murder case. It just isn't. You get into the evidence. You look at his history. You see what really happened on that day. And I had a frank and candid conversation with the state's attorney once we were done with the case for the day. I said, listen, will you go back? I want you to look at this again. This is really a reckless discharge. This is somebody got themselves into an unfortunate set of circumstances. Yes, he fired his gun. However, he wasn't trying to kill anybody. He actually thought he was defending himself. And they agreed with me. And because I have the right reputation, and I have the right relationship with them, so yeah, let me... I'm gonna go back and look at this. Let me talk to my supervisor. I think you're right.

Whereas if I'm the person who on every case just runs it, everybody's out to get my client, he's 100% innocent, you should just drop this case. They're not gonna listen to that. And there are some attorneys who try that and they're not credible. So those relationships, that reputation goes a long way. Just getting to know people. You've been around long enough. What is it that moves the needle for this judge at sentencing? There are things like, don't say this, because it's gonna go sideways really fast because that is a button for them. Or do say this. This is what they want to hear. This is what they want to see. They want to make sure you're getting treatment or that they're empathetic to somebody who has a drug problem. These are examples, but those types of things only come from being around every day, having those relationships, learning sometimes some tough lessons about things that clients did or didn't do and they didn't help themselves, but relationship building, being in there and just having, I call it institutional knowledge from small idiosyncratic things about this judge doesn't hit the bench until 10:30 a.m. I know it's scheduled for nine. Don't show up at nine o'clock because you're going to sit there until 10:30. small things to very crucial, this can make or break the case kind of stuff about we need to get you in, you need to be doing this treatment, you need to be looking at this, you need to start doing some community service, you need to do this, you need to do that, because this is going to carry the day, this is going to sway the opinion of a state's attorney in amending your charge or recommending a lower sentence. And you can only have that from experience and having the relationships.

Matt Skye:
It does really seem like that human side is so important. It's not like everything is written in stone. Can you detail for us maybe some of the benefits of a solo practitioner versus a larger law firm?

David Drewecke:
Well, what it comes down to is it is relationships, but it's relationship with your attorney. What you'll find out at a lot of bigger firms in the criminal space that that's not as common as you might see it in personal injury or some of the other types of law. But when you're dealing with a larger firm, you have a name or an attorney you think you're going to work with. In reality, you might not actually work with that person or ever see that person in court. You're going to see an associate or somebody else that you've maybe never met before. And at bigger firms, associates come and go. There's a great deal of turnover.

So that personal touch and knowing who your attorney is, you may not know who your attorney is. You signed up with a big name or somebody you thought you were going to be dealing with, you may not. With a solo, I am your attorney. The way that my firm is structured right now, I'm the one who's going to handle that consultation. I'm going to be the one who answers the questions. I'm going to be the one who's by your side in court. So when you're communicating with somebody at the firm, you're dealing with me.

My intention is eventually to grow as well. But even when that happens, it's to have associates do some of the lower level tasks. But ultimately, you're hiring the firm and you're hiring me because you want both my experience, relationships, and the ability in court.

When it comes to big and small firms, I like to pitch my firm as small firm relationships where you're going to know who your attorney is, you know you get to talk to an attorney when you have a question, but then big firm tools, assets, and ability. I invest heavily in the firm when it comes to having the latest tools and technology in how we run the firm, how we organize the firm, how we do legal research, how we prepare clients mitigation, subscribing to services that do evaluations so that I can present my client in the best light possible to get the best results. And that comes from first and foremost, just spending some money on the firm. So I will invest. I have tools that I worked at large firms years ago before I went out on my own who do not use these tools, who do not leverage these kinds of tools because I think they were cheap and it costs money to invest in this stuff. But this is what gets the best results. This is a competitive advantage over the state's attorney. It's awesome. I love it. From artificial intelligence, to evaluations, to automated processes, to digital communication, to being able to communicate with the firm effectively 24-7, 365, to timely responses. We do it all while still keeping a personal touch that you would only find at a solo firm.

Matt Skye:
You also bring this ability to negotiate plea bargains or settlements. How does that factor in the importance of that?

David Drewecke:
It's crucial because the fact of the matter is most cases are going to resolve with a negotiated plea. The client is the one who has the ultimate exposure in a case because they're the ones who could potentially go to jail or go to prison for a very long time. So the ability to negotiate and work out an agreement that a client would be satisfied with, and now satisfied can mean a few different things from doing cartwheels around the office, they were so happy with the offer, to grin and bear, I'll take that somewhat begrudgingly, but I know it's the best outcome. That could take a couple different forms.

But that is the reality, that these cases carry very serious consequences and you lose control if you don't win at trial. So you either negotiate on the front end, where you have a little bit of control, you have some insight, you can present mitigation, you can negotiate with the state, and then accept or not accept that agreement. If we go to trial and it's not successful, control is gone. You are now subject to whatever the sentencing range is for your charge. If it's a misdemeanor, that's up to a year in jail. Maybe the consequences aren't that dire. For some others, we're talking about decades in prison potentially. And the only say we have is before the judge and to fall on the mercy of the court and say, this is why you should do the lower end as opposed to the higher end. But it's ultimately up to the judge, and he or she is going to do what they deem appropriate. And we just have to take it at that point.

Matt Skye:
When someone is selecting a criminal defense attorney, how much should geographic location be a factor?

David Drewecke:
I think it goes back to the relationships where, you know, Illinois is a big state and Cook County is a very big county with a lot of attorneys both in Cook and then DuPage, Will, Kane, Kankakee and so forth. They all can practice criminal law. You can find somebody who's not in Cook County. You find somebody south of the state. They're licensed. They can come here and practice. And if they want to make that two, three, four, five-hour trip up to Chicago and handle the case, can they do it? Yes. Are they going to have those relationships? Are they going to have that institutional knowledge? Are they going to know the idiosyncratic things of these states' attorneys and judges? No.

And that's where part of the value in that geographic location can go a long way. I know that judge. I know that state's attorney. I could tell you how often I get a consultation call like, oh, I'm in X, Y, and Z room. Oh, that's funny. I was there yesterday. You know, I know exactly who you're going to be dealing with. I know the judge. You're in good hands. I've got you. If you go with somebody who's local and knows the players, that carries an awful lot of weight.

Matt Skye:
Let's talk a little bit about demeanor and litigation skills and how that determines effective outcomes for cases you take on.

David Drewecke:
Huge experience, but then the ability to be a trial lawyer. And I use that term very specifically because just because you have passed the bar and you're a lawyer, you are an attorney, you can practice law, you can try cases. What you might be surprised about is how many people are actually competent, good at it, and then actually get results.

I was a law clerk for just shy of seven years, and I routinely thought to myself, did this person not realize public speaking was a part of the job? Like this was actually kind of painful to listen to, and I felt bad for them. I feel bad for their clients. This person is not equipped for this job because the job, especially at trial, is to be persuasive. There is an element of theatricality and performance in getting the results that your client desperately wants and needs, especially at trial. We're past negotiation, which is a skill unto itself. We are now in trial. We are now persuading. We're telling a story. We're trying to be convincing. And that is a skill unto itself.

And you really, you can be born with bits and pieces of it. And I think some people are. That's something I love doing. I love to perform. I love to public speak. And that's one part of it. But then have the experience doing it. It's like, how many attorneys, if you were to ask, when was the last time you tried a case? And they actually have to think about it and say, oh, I think I tried one last year. It's like, well, I tried two this week. So there is experience that not only am I kind of born for doing it, I am doing it. And then that doing it, you start to build a reputation. And I've been doing this for years now, that even in some of the toughest cases, that we don't go down without a fight. We're going to make the state earn it each and every day on each and every element with each and every bit of exhibit or testimony evidence they're going to bring in because not every case is going to be that strong for the state.

And that's part of their calculus in making an offer. They're like, they brought in David. He's there. This is not a strong case. If we go to trial, we might take the L. We better make a better offer than if we're dealing with another attorney who their reputation is they never go to trial. That they are going to strong arm their client into taking the first offer for the sake of making it go away. And that's not my reputation. That if we can't reach something my client's going to accept, I'm not going to strong arm them into taking an offer. If I don't genuinely believe they should be taking it, let's go to trial. Let's make them earn it. And then that reputation, that ability and skill will go a long way.

I'm happy about this. One of the things I'm most proud of is that I'll walk in and a state attorney will see that I'm on it and they'll know it's going to be professional. It's going to move smoothly because I'm going to work with them professionally. But at trial, giddy up, you know, it's going to be a ride now because I'm going to make you work for it, that I know the rules of evidence. You're not sneaking something in past me and that I can be persuasive.

One of the things that doesn't always come through, I think, on our podcasts and even video is just a personality and the fact that I'm six foot nine, about 280 pounds. I'm a big guy. I haven't been bullied for a second of my life. It's never happened. And it's not going to start. And I tell my clients that I do with a smile on my face. We're not literally going to fight and swing on one another. You know, I have a good professional relationship with the state, but I'm also not going to roll over. I am here for you. I'm advocating for you and to get the best result possible. And I'm equipped for doing that. I actually had this brought to my own attention because I didn't think of it this way, that I'm 39 years old right now. I'll be 40 here in just a couple of months. But other than the four years that I was in my undergrad, I've otherwise been in the trial and criminal justice system as a law clerk, working for a judge for seven years, working for some law firms as an associate and as a law clerk, and now out as an attorney my own. So my adult life has been in the courtroom, as a trial attorney, learning from both the best and the worst attorneys that I've ever seen, taking the good things from those who are excellent, and then learning, don't ever do that, from those who are terrible, and now bleeding this into what I believe to be the best criminal trial attorney there is in Chicago.

Matt Skye:
You mentioned something interesting to me a bit earlier about, if I'm recalling, technology, AI. How do new technologies like that work into your practice? How do you use that to help get the best results for your clients?

David Drewecke:
It's a great question. You have to do it judiciously because there are stories. There's one out of New York specifically from a little over maybe a year ago where an attorney was using artificial intelligence, using it just blindly, copy and pasted an answer that he had received into a pleading. Come to find out the jargon that uses that the A.I. had hallucinated and just made up cases, made up facts. None of it was true. None of it was based in reality. And he got sanctioned pretty heavily for doing that. And it's because he didn't do his due diligence in verifying that that was legitimate or good case law, among other things.

I do use artificial intelligence and I use a very cutting edge tool that I still verify. I don't just copy and paste it, accept whatever it spits out at me, but that tool is absolutely incredible. It gives me an advantage over the state. It gives me miles and miles and miles of advantage over attorneys who don't even pay for the basic subscriptions to do legal research. And that's for drafting memos or if a client has a question, give me 10 or 15 minutes. It could be one of the most complex, nuanced bits of law. I will have case law, citations, statutes within 10 or 15 minutes and an answer for them because I'll leverage those tools. That is a huge competitive advantage because I invest in the firm.

There are other tools like evaluations that I invest in that aren't an added cost to the client. It's something I subscribe to, the firm subscribes to, that they can take advantage of when we're putting together what's called mitigation. It's just, in a nutshell, it's good stuff about my client, why the state should give him or her a better offer or a reduced charge. As far as I know, because I actually... I'm not friends with, but I communicate with the owner and proprietor of this service. He's like, you're the only Cook County attorney that's subscribed to this and you use it heavily because now he compares me not just to the other people in Cook County who aren't using it, but to other users throughout the country. He's like, you're like the number one guy who uses this. And I've yet to have a state's attorney not come back and go, man, this report is incredible. Like, did you do this? Like, no, it's a great service to use, but my clients benefit from it.

And this comes back to investing in yourself. And I do with continuing legal education and going to trial level college and strategies and reading books, I'm always wanting to ingest new things and learn new things. But investing in the firm, having the latest and greatest and cutting edge tools, anything that expedites or automates or gets a faster or better result can help my client and maybe get their case done faster or get a better result for the client. And that it's investing in both myself and the firm.

Matt Skye:
And to that point of investing in yourself, it seems you've been able to build a real reputation. How important is that for people when they're going to a potential criminal trial or hopefully avoiding trial?

David Drewecke:
I think it's huge. I've told a couple of clients, and I've said this during consultations as well, is that state's attorneys know the regular players. And I think we talked about it earlier. There are some attorneys, their reputation, they don't go to trial, that the state knows they can pitch out any offer. The attorney is going to take the offer, go to their client, and basically strong arm them into taking that offer. I won't do that. I have an ethical duty to pass the offer along, but I'll also tell the client and say, this is garbage. This is not the best the state can do. And if it is, let's go to trial. This is ridiculous.

I do firmly believe that I get better offers and get better results than other attorneys because of my reputation that it's twofold as it relates to trial. One is I'll go to trial. I'm not afraid to go to trial. If that's in my client's best interest and if that's what they want, we will go to trial. We will be prepared and we will be formidable at trial. But then, because I'm not afraid to go to trial and because we've also gotten the results, that gets better offers. So it's almost a way of avoiding losing a trial. The state gives us better offers. The client pays less of a fee. They pay a lower amount of time in jail. They get a better offer, a lesser charge, because of past results, because I've won other cases, because I wouldn't roll over on a bad offer.

And that is huge, I think, for my clients in getting a better result.

Matt Skye:
Yeah, it's an important point. It's a strange irony, right, that like being willing to go to trial is actually what allows you to prevent people from having to go to trial in many cases.

David Drewecke:
Absolutely correct. That is absolutely correct. Because people know those who roll over and take bad offers and don't ever counter and say, well, OK, I hear the... Thanks, and maybe I understand the logic of how you reached that, but what do you think of this? And go back.

One other interesting part, at least in Illinois, this is something a little different from other jurisdictions that I'm licensed in, is Illinois has what's called a 402 conference—402, and it's pursuant to the Illinois Supreme Court rule 402—where there's some caveats, but if the state and I can't come to an agreement that my client is comfortable with, but maybe we're close, we can get the judge involved and say, Your Honor, we've been negotiating. We're working on this. We can't reach a resolution, but we want you to be involved now. We want to see what you think is a fair sentence if my client were to accept, you know, take responsibility and plead guilty to something.

Now, the caveats on that—and I can keep this simple—are first, the state has to agree to do it. I can't just back door them and make the judge get involved. Number two is that the state gets to pick on what charge we're doing the 402 conference. So if part of the real issue is that the state won't come to the lesser charge that I want, then going to the 402 probably doesn't give us much benefit because I'm trying to get them to come from a more serious charge to a lesser charge. If it's really about the number, you know, they want jail time or prison time, I'm looking for probation or I'm looking for a lot less time, and we can go to a 402. We've had a lot of success there. And again, goes back to relationships with judges and knowing what are the cases, what are the facts, what are the things that move the needle for that specific judge.

And that can be very valuable, again, in getting a better result for my client. And again, reputation goes a long way. I will go to trial. I'll tell it how it is. I'm not going to sugarcoat things. I'm candid with the judge, and they appreciate that, that I don't come in and in every case it's got to be the minimum, your honor. It has to be probation, because you lose credibility when you do that in every case, as an example.

But there are different ways of reaching a resolution and knowing those angles and having those relationships and having the skills and having this reputation—immeasurably important to getting the best result for a client.

Matt Skye:
David, as we wrap up for our listeners, any major takeaways from today's episode?

David Drewecke:
The big takeaway when it comes to getting an attorney or hiring an attorney is first and foremost, find somebody that is an expert in your problem. Start there. Go to websites, read reviews, go to the ARDC website and verify they're not in trouble with the bar and so forth. But then go and do a consultation. Are you comfortable with their style? Are they taking time to make you feel comfortable? Because if they're not even making time now, when you haven't paid them a fee yet, they're not going to be responsive or approachable later on.

Lastly, but not the least important, price things out. Because you could find the expert of all experts, love that attorney and want to work with them, but if they're not in your budget, obviously that's not going to work either. As a final point for me, I think it's very important—it's a foundational point of how I built the firm—is that yes, we want to get paid, it is a business, but we price ourselves competitively, oftentimes even under market, because we know that that price can be the only differentiating thing between somebody being forced to work with a public defender that they don't want, or with the private attorney that they do want. So price things fairly for the work that's going to be done, taking into consideration that a lot of my clients come from different socioeconomic backgrounds, but they still are scared, taking this very seriously, and they want to have representation. I'm happy to say that we make getting the yes and getting the attorney that you want and need as easy as possible.

Matt Skye:
It's a great point to wrap up on. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning into Defending the Windy City with David Druecke. For more information or to connect with David, visit drdlawllc.com and find him on social media. David, thanks for your time today.

David Drewecke:
Thanks for having me again, Matt.